I agree with the most of your posts! It's not all about accent but it's all about proper pronunciation, stress, intonation, etc. Its a matter of pronouncing table as [tA-b&l] and not as [tibol]. It's a matter of pronouncing tricycle as [trI-s&-k&l] and not as [traysikol] or [traysikel]. Just say it correctly and for sure, every Thai will appluad your accent (as their term goes).

Try to teach them with a British or American accent and I am sure that most of them will be left confused. The thinking pattern that the accent (i.e. American, Brisitish, Australian, etc.) is very important in teaching English is a falacy. I am not an English major but I hardly believe it is.

I think everybody is so familiar of the booming call centers in the Philippines. Most of the call centers in the Philippines are owned by American companies and most of the customers are Americans. Every employee is expected to speak in American tongue because the customers are Americans. In fact, their names are changed into American sounding names. What is the point there? My point is that, during the hiring process, the companies do not emphasize that the applicant must have an AMERICAN SOUNDING tongue but only GOOD COMMUNICATION SKILLS. What good an accent can do if you find it hard to communicate? ahhh ehhh hhmmmm ahhhaa ahhhh... bla bla bla... It's very easy to learn the accent but it's not that easy to achieve an excellent communication skills. Now, tell me, does accent really matter? Well, in a call center they train you to speak with that accent because they are looking after for their customers but in teaching English as a Second Language, I doubt if accent is a great help.


I was just hired to teach phonology, phonemics and phonetics by a group of top 50 Thai ESL teachers around Thonburi area during their week-long review workshop sponsored by E.R.I.C. this year's March.  The textbook they wanted me to use to review for their national test was from the British Council, a highly respected British educational organization.  It was a wonder that accent (manner of pronunciation), along with other things, was equally emphasized.  Those top 50 Thai ESL teachers are very impressive with their accent, a combination of British and Thai.  They could correct any L2 who hasn't mastered the British accent.  [b]Again, let me emphasize that it is not either-or issue--teachers' accent or effectiveness.  Both are equally important.  I'm just emphasizing accent because of its need to balance from a pull of other emphases, which undermines its value.[/b]

Amen to erick!

Most of the times, emphasizing an accent in teaching ESL leads the learners to confusion. Example, Nanticha learned English from an Australian when she was in Grade 1 and she learned that "day" is pronounced as [sounding like die] then in his 2nd Grade, she learned with a teacher who uses American accent and teach her another way of pronuncing "day". Now, Nanticha is confused as to what is correct. What is the end now? Instead of teaching the learner, we lead her to confusion which should not be the case in language teaging and learning.

How should we respond to this kind of problem? As an ESL teacher, how should you respond to the situation. Alas! The answer is right here and that was mentioned by erick. What's the use of the IPA? It's the standard pronunciation. In teaching ESL, effective teachers follow the standards since they have been tested and proven and it's conventional of course.

That's all for now and see you next month in this thread.... hehehhehehe 8)

Again, we don't teach a particular ACCENT. We're supposed to follow the standard IPA. In Thailand, where ESL teachers have different accents, it is their responsibility to SHOW the DIFFERENCES how some English words are pronounced differently and/or how sounds are enunciated differently.

IMHO, these top 50 THai ESL teachers need to be given  courses on SOCIOLINGUISTICS, Supervision and Administration of Language Education,  Curriculum Design and Language material preparation and Current trends in TESL. It seems like their dependence to British English needs to be clearly investigated.  That's interesting. There really is something happening in Bangkok.

Probably, these 50 Thai ESL teachers thought that the BRITISH English is viewed as appropriate to ESL. Thailand wants to follow the British's ortography. And TRIES to make it official but that's not the reality.  I wonder what the Americans have to say.  

If that's the case, then there is a need to reevaluate Thailand's textbooks, competencies and ESL teaching.  Still I doubt the success of reinforcing ONE English to the learners.  Given the cultural/economic/technological situation in Thailand,  the different English varieties are most probably found in here.

I just hope that these 50 Thai ESL teachers will not use their PREFERENCE to British English where they say "Please use British English because we think it's better than American English" in the classroom.  If they do so, not only they are creating indifference but they are at the same time destroying the essence of ESL.

Oh well. Let's wait and see.

From the above discussions: what are the implications to a Filipino ESL/EFL teacher in Thailand:

1. that he/she is expected to teach not ENGLISH nor FILIPINO ENGLISH but ENGLISH as a SECOND LANGUAGE in the context of the learner's needs, culture, and among others;

2. that he/she is expected to follow the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) as this was devised and is progressively modified to provide a precise and universal means ( i.e. valid for ALL languages) of writing down the spoken forms of utterances as they are spoken without reference to their ortographic representation, grammatical status, or meaning. (A language teacher who learned/studied the basics of linguistics and ESL/EFL teaching knows that this is a given fact) 

Thus, he/she needs to avoid the interference of his first language if he/she teaches pronunciation. In addition, please be reminded that in the field of language education, the following terms are defined:

ACCENT - (phonetics) features of pronunciation which signal a person's regional or social identity
              (phonology) a type of perceived prominence heard on a spoken word or syllable
              (graphology) a mark placed above a letter, showing how that letter is to be pronounced

PRONUNCIATION- The way in which speakers articulate speech sounds (too vague for it to have achieved a technical status in linguistics)

and in the field of ESL/EFL, pronunciation is taught to achieve the two major goals:

a. Intelligibility

b. Acceptable pronunciation

3. that he/she being ONE of the many foreign ESL/EFL teachers in Thailand is expected to show and demonstrate how some English words can be pronounced by other standard English users (american vs. british vs. australian);

4. that he/she needs to consider the communication realities outside the classroom in designing language materials; include other English varieties as examples to show how the English language works in the real world; and that encourage the learners that learning with  more than one lESL/EFL language teacher of different accents will help them prepare to face different language barriers as English is used differently; and

5. that he/she should not be intimidated by other language teachers especially the so-called "native speakers" since the bottomline is all teach ESL/EFL and not his/her own English and the success and effectivity of a language teacher does not start and end in mastering "accent" or pronunciation.


Thank you very much and I hope all of us have learned something from this discussion!

Here are my two centavos na rin on this topic:

1. .......


 

   To empower Pinoys in Thailand, no matter what career path you are on, is something we wish to support in Siam Pinoy. All great endeavors don't happen in just one week, not even a year. It will take time, but we hope to stay the course, and hopefully, you would also be there to lend support, give suggestions, and perhaps even laugh with us (stressful na nga minsan ang life sa Thailand, e). Siam Pinoy is for all of you Pinoys out there who want to make a positive contribution to our community and to the individual living and working in Thailand, or who have left their hearts in Thailand! So, stick around!!! ;D ;D [/i]




Madame H, I agree with your post....you hit the nail right on the head, especially with the concept of hiring farangs, as this was explicitly told to me by a Brit superintendent a couple months ago....and what you said about what's happening re Filipino teachers in particular. I was shocked to find out that there many who come to Thailand on piss poor salaries. Mas malaki pa ang binabayad sa public school teachers back home.

I am curious, however, about your idea of involving the Phil Embassy as a step to improving things. Are there political implications on the how, where, what, and why of our working here? I had no idea. Please understand I am relatively new to this game, barely in my 7th year of teaching.

My school in particular has an international category but markets itself as using an American curriculum. It is apparent the natives do not spot this and readily assumes they are one and the same. ***shrug***

Thanks for you information....


No matter which country we will be working in, and no matter how some of us might be against the idea of involving the embassy in our working life, they would always be the go between our host country and us. Of course that is not to say we cannot initiate projects/things, etc without them, but legally, they are our representatives and to a certain extent, our voice. However, it would also be foolish, I think, if we just sit idly by and then wait for them to do all the work.

That is already what is happening in our country right now, let us not duplicate it outside.

What I mean here is that, if every Filipino takes responsibility for his/her own life, our growth and progress as a nation would be tremendous. There was this principle I heard from a famous life coach one time, that said, "No one is coming!" That has left an imprint in my persona for the rest of my lifetime.

I think the implication here is, if each of us will not expect that somebody will come and help, that somebody will start that ever-needed organization, that somebody will give "abuloy" (donation)...etc, I think we will all be much better. But the thing is, we have been programmed as a nation to "asa" (expect) that somebody will come and help us with our problems. Or worse, that it is actually somebody else's job to help us becasue we are poor, because we are helpless, because... because... because....

The reasons why Americans thrive, I think, is because from the time they are young, they are trained to take care of themselves. They are given jobs, chores at home. If they want more money, they ahev to work for it at a young age. If they want something, they have to think of ways themselves how to get it. There is no "ninong" or "ninang" from abroad whom they can ask money or favors from. There is no tita or tito abroad who will send them to school.

From the time they're 16, they have to think about what they want to do with their lives because two years later, they should not expect that their parents will still be there to hold their hands. But what of us???

We never leave our mothers' bosoms!!! It's much too comfortable. It's much too safe!

As an educator, how I wish our educational system would change back home, and this should be drummed into every Filipino child's mind: NO ONE IS COMING!!! Harsh? Well, life is tough! Shouldn't we train our young to face what's out there, rather than to give them the false comfort that somebody would always be there....somehow...?

sorry to spoil the party but WE, ENGLISH MAJORS still believe that ESL/EFL matters must be dealt with professional elegance. I've been writing books and articles for almost 12 years now. You know what, playing with words (some are so strict in following grammatical patterns. Nah so naive i guess.) means something, pronouncing it correctly is everything. I tried to deviate (sometimes) from the " do's and don'ts " of English usage ( uhmm i like poetic license though. read my lips) but others cant simply understand underlying meanings and the beauty of it. Most of the time and the usual comment is wrong grammar. My sociolinguistics prof said, " it is so sad, seeing saints of English around the world." As for me, I enjoy expressing my thoughts. And i am a writer until now because i am simply unpredictable. This "native speakers thing" has become a mindset so get over it. Iggy them and youll be magnanimous. nyek.

Of course British is considered to be a native english speakers,that's why we called them english instead of British.

The competition here in Thailand for English native speakers against Asian is big deal in all schools.I feel bad and pitty to our felow Pilipino and other asian countries who wants to teach here in Thailand.Most on classified ads requirements is "Native English Speaker Only " sometimes they will also mentioned "Philippines not Allowed".

Imagine the big difference when it comes to salary,benefits,positions and treatment.And most schools who hired asian is from up country/provinces because they can't afford native speakers.

okay let's say the main reason they prefer native speaker is because of their accent.But i dont think that's a big deal.Pilipinos accent is more on American accent which is just great and not bad as what Thai think.

Hindi ko field ang pagtuturo pero apektado ako sa situation ng mga teacher na Pinoy/Asian.

are you Jimmy Lee?


Darfur,

Medyo off topic ito, pero tanong ko lang: Hinahanap mo pa ba c Jimmy Lee? Nameet mo na ba siya?

Hindi ko field ang pagtuturo pero apektado ako sa situation ng mga teacher na Pinoy/Asian.


This is what separates a native speaker from a non-native speaker. A native speaker is comfortable in his first language and knows all the nuances and doesn't need to use a crutch when speaking or writing in it.

Think about it, Filipinos will resort to Visayan and Tagalog when speaking with another Filipino when they don't feel 100% comfortable saying it in English. That's ok but it's an open admission that they are not comfortable with their English. Should you be teaching a language that you are not even comfortable enough to speak?

Someone mentioned call centers. I got an introduction to some call centers over the last few weeks. My wife did the rounds applying for a call center position. I hung out in the waiting areas instead of waiting in the hotel.

I saw two major issues. The first issue was the fact that none of the applicants waiting were speaking in English. They were going for a job where they want to highlight their English skills and they only spoke in Tagalog or Visayan while waiting. While waiting there all day at this one company, only three applicants bothered to talk to me in English. Guess what? They were the only ones(plus my wife) hired that day.

The second issue was a culture of Asian customer service. They attempt to foster a US customer service mindset after the hire, but they should be doing it from the get-go.

On the subject of pronunciation, it takes practice. You get practice by exposure to correct English, not Taglish or ?? If your pronunciation is like GMA's then you need to work on your pronunciation. If you think she doesn't have a rough accent then you need a lot more exposure to correct English pronunciation.

Grammar? Grammar rules are meant to be broken, I like Darfur's comments on the elegance, so I'll say this, grammar rules are meant to be broken elegantly. English is a living language and it changes to fit the needs.

Pay? I think pay is an issue. There are two insidious factors at play in Thailand.

My wife earned less than a native speaker and she was ok with it. A native speaker has a grasp on the language a non-native can only have after many, many years of study of both the language and the culture. She was ok with that and so am I.

What I do have a problem is with schools hiring South Africans, Russians, and other Europeans who are NOT native speakers and paying them more than Filipinos. That's racism. Oh, they have a white face so pay them more. There is no skill difference perceptible, just skin color difference.

And with the current situation in Thailand, there is no reason why not to hire a Filipino to teach English.